Elizabeth Olsen on Marvel, being good at ignoring advice and her constant fear of death

Hey everyone, just a heads up, there’s a little bit of spicy language in this episode. It’s like a hot take whether an actor says they want they would never do a Marvel movie or not or filmmakers think it’s ruining theaters. I have a very healthy relationship with not relying that much on the validation of others.

 Maybe there’s a self-love issue in there for me not want validation from others. I do live my life in fear of dying at all times, but other than that, I’m Rachel Martin and this is Wild Card, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. My guest this week is Elizabeth Olsen.

 She showed up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe about a decade ago as Wanda Maximoff, and by 2021, she was flying around wreaking havoc as the Scarlet Witch in Wanda Vision. And while Olsen hasn’t closed the door on that character, we’ve definitely seen her talent unfold in some totally different directions over the last few years.

There was Love and Death, where she played a murderous housewife and his three daughters about sisters caring for their dad in his final days. Her newest film is called The Assessment. And in it, Elizabeth Olsen plays this woman living in a kind of protected society cuz the earth has been destroyed. And she’s got to pass this test in order to be granted the chance to have a baby.

 It is my pleasure to welcome Elizabeth Olsen to Wildcard. That was very nice to listen to. Thank you. You’re welcome. I’m happy to be here. First three cards. One, two, or three. I’ll do the one in the middle. Two. Two. What do you admire about your teenage self? I think those years uh were huge building blocks for I think two things that are really important to me in my life.

 my discipline and uh my love of learning. And I think in junior high I in high school I became kind of obsessed with my teachers and like in a good way like you wanted to be them. You were into them. I wanted to make them feel validated by caring about what they were teaching. And I’m such a people pleaser. Um but but it also such a people pleaser.

 Uh but it was really beneficial for me because I really fell in love with academics in my teenage years, not in elementary school. It was really when I was 15 that I realized that I that I think I wanted to pursue theater as a career. And the way I connected to that not feeling like a vanity project was because of the academ the academia angle of uh studying specifically.

 I was really fascinated by Russian history. And the thing that that moved me learning about Russian theater was it became the voice of the people because there was just obviously so uh much authoritarian government and uh the arts were what were representing the people’s voices and they had to in some in some cases become very clever with their own messaging being hidden within the stories and so I think it was through academia that I I found it to be a very important uh part of culture and history.

 Dude, that’s weird considering you know Wanda Maximoff, isn’t she Russian? She’s a fake Eastern European country called Yeah. One, two, or three? Two. What’s something someone told you that changed your trajectory? Flip. Flip. Yeah. I was working as a freelancer in Afghanistan. This is after 911. And then my mom got sick. She got cancer and I felt like I needed to come back to be closer to her.

 But she lived in Idaho and I got a job at the NPR member station in San Francisco. And uh I was going to be the afternoon news announcer and as on my first day I’m getting a tour and the guy who was going to be the engineer behind the glass pressing the buttons to make the mics work and things he he was giving me the tour and he as he introduced me to the newsroom he’s like this is where you shall sit and I’ll be behind the glass and we’ll do this for decades and I was like will we? I don’t want to.

 And it triggered like this whole existential crisis. like I don’t really want to be doing this and I’m not close enough to my mom and anyway I quit 6 months later and I did and um then I moved to Berlin which uh was still very far away but it was a lot safer than being in Iraq or Afghanistan at the time and then I went back and forth and my mom came to visit me anyway that that but it really did pivot for me.

 Did Berlin then turn into other countries that you worked in or from Berlin. I sort of went back and forth to Iraq was popping off at the time. So, I was sort of bouncing around. There was a lot going on in Europe at the time, too. Um, Tubboax in London. So, it was a busy it was a busy time. Um, and then I I made a go of trying to be a foreign correspondent and realized that that life wasn’t actually what I wanted either.

 It was something in between. So, Oh, how amazing. And scary. It sounds scary and terrifying. It was, you know, but I was young and felt invincible at the time. What did someone say that changed my trajectory? The reason why I’m having a hard time with this is because I didn’t have any mentors growing up and I felt uh very um what’s the word? Uh, I I I I felt like I I was very self motivated and I didn’t listen to a lot of people’s opinions within my family and I just kind of kept doing what I wanted to. Did your parents try to nudge

you away from acting? I mean, we have to just acknowledge your two older sisters uh were in Full House. um Mary Kate Ashley. And so there was it’s not like it was totally foreign to you that world. No, not at all. Um and my parents and my dad golfing was his uh way into uh community friends.

 I mean since he was a little boy and he’s a very good golfer and would play in proam tournaments all over the world and country and it is how he met people who gave him jobs. it was his trading card in life. And my mother was a ballet dancer until she until she stopped. Both of them really believed that if you get to make an a living doing the thing you love to do, that’s everything.

 So, they helped set you up for success. Yeah. There’s six of us in my dad’s house and four in my mom’s. My god, I didn’t realize you had so many siblings. Yeah. you’re just kind of on your own when you have that many kids in your family. Um, which is why it’s hard for me to think of something that really created a different trajectory. Yeah.

 I mean, there there are definitely kind of told you so moments from, you know, other people who gave me advice that I didn’t take. Is there an example that you’d be willing to share? Um, no. Because to tell you the truth, all the good advice that I that I did ignore and maybe would have benefited from came from my sisters.

 And it always becomes such a bigger story when I introduce things that they told me or, you know, whatever. I understand it’s a it’s a strange thing to grow up in that dynamic with these particular siblings and well especially because we do all live our lives in a very private way in a world that everything’s so uh outwardly facing now and um and so when it when it’s about my work when it become when it pivots and I feel like I’m roping them into something they didn’t sign up for is when I’m is when I feel bad and I had to learn that how growing you know

through my career of uh how to be honest about myself but also figure out the the the separation. Yeah, totally. I respect that. So, with that, we’re going to pull back from the game and talk about the new movie you’re in, The Assessment. I gave a little bit of a sketch of it in the introduction, but do you mind doing the heavy lifting and in your words describe the world that your character Mia is inhabiting? Yeah, it’s a it’s a sort of near future sci-fi uh where the circumstances of the environment and resources

um have forced the world to create basically a bubble within the world. So now there’s a new world and an old world. And within this world, people are also taking supplements so that they can uh survive longer like we’re all pretending we want to do with this like trans or Yeah. the transhumanist movement. Yeah. Live forever.

 It does not sound good to me. But yeah, but it creates this world where the only avenue to have a child is out uterro because of this supplement that people are taking. So you have to be approved by the government and with that it’s a very kind of absurd uh set of games that we all play uh in order to test how potentially good we could be as parents in different circumstances.

 So it does feel like um postapocalyptic stories are in the ether as it were right now. Yeah. Do you do you consume that kind of stuff for yourself? I don’t think so. I I’m the type of person that really does believe in like goodness and morality winning in life. I just have to believe that I’m not I’m I’m cynical and I’m contrarian by nature.

 Um as we’ve learned with me not taking advice. Um and and I question everything but I think the heart of my whole mind is uh people who are in roles of service uh who are good will ultimately win uh in the in when I think about I don’t know history in ways his obviously when you look back There’s so many things that in, you know, lots of countries where that doesn’t happen.

 And uh I don’t know. I don’t like being bleak and thinking that the world’s going to end at at any given moment. Yeah. It’s also can be unproductive to live in that space for a while. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I I don’t know how it’s helpful to be uh catastrophic about everything. Um, I’m I’m always more interested in I it’s not my impulse or instinct to believe or think that, but why do you think that? Yeah.

 And so I I think that’s just kind of how I look at all of the things that we can catastrophize as people in the world. Yeah. Thank you. We’re going to get back into the game. One, two, or three. Two. How much do you rely on the validation of others? I have uh I think a very as an actor a very healthy relationship with not relying that much on the validation of others.

 Really was that always the case for you though even when you were younger? Yeah. God Elizabeth. Uh I think honestly I think it has to do with there being so many kids in a in a house. Yeah, my dad believes that he my dad being so uh not a socialist, like the opposite. He believes he raised us in like a socialist environment where everyone was equal, not everyone gets a trophy.

That’s like kind of the things he, you know, the platitudes he stands on. Um, and I I so I I was never going to get it. I was never going to get I mean I got like encouragement like that was like you know you your team won or like good job or that was a great play or uh you know your arms like my mom telling me that my arms were nice in the ballet performance I did but it was never exhausted like uh uh out of place exaggerated I’m so proud of you’re so brilliant like I never got real it was authentic and not specific and honest. And so I think

I don’t expect potentially that from people because uh I don’t know maybe there’s a self-love issue in there for me not want validation that well that you are fine that you’re filled up and maybe it’s healthy. I think it’s super healthy. Okay. I mean I I also I I don’t have Instagram.

 I don’t engage in a in a public facing way. I do think that’s that creates uh a need for other people’s approval and validation. Um that if we were to live our lives without, we would have less of. Maybe it was just baked into you or maybe your parents really did do a good job. But you seem altogether balanced and together, my dear.

 And I just feel like the world you walk through in that industry can be really hard in those ways. So I do live my life in fear of dying at all times, but other than that, that’s the next round, Lizzy. That’s we’ll get to the dying. Three more cards in this round. One, two, or three. One, please. Well, I know what the answer to this is going to be.

I’m going to ask it anyway and then maybe we’ll just do a dealer’s choice skip here. What is something you still feel you need to prove to the people you meet? I feel like you’re going to say nothing. [Music] No, I mean I think I think my taste uh in a creative way uh I think I haven’t always successfully made choices in my work that are aligned with my personal taste.

And that is something I’m I’m feel like I’m still trying to prove when I meet people, especially if it’s a a work type meeting. I feel like I I have to uh be very clear about my own homework basically. Uh uh and ex and be able to express my personal taste and uh films uh literature. Um, and so, so I still think I have that that to prove.

 Cuz you didn’t really want to be a superhero or am I making a conclusion? I mean, I did actually. I really wanted um when I started Marvel, uh, I thought the Iron Men were the Iron Man movies, Iron Man movies were so so great. I thought they were such great Greek type scale stories. um that reflected politics, culture in a really lovely way.

 And so I felt really uh I felt really proud to jump into it. And then within the last 10 years, it’s taken on this narrative of like uh it’s like a hot take whether an actor says they want to they would never do a Marvel movie or not or filmmakers think it’s ruining theaters. But what is it about your taste that you feel insecure about or that I think that is why because I had I’ve spent so many years doing Marvel that I feel like all the other jobs I have to do really have to reflect my personal taste cuz I um as much as I love being a part of this

world and I’m proud of what I’ve been able to do with the character um I it’s not really the art that I consume which I’ve been very I think uh uh honest about uh and uh and so I I I feel like I I have to really focus on what to couple uh all of those films and shows that I do with Marvel with to showcase my taste. Yeah.

 So yeah, I even though I don’t seek the word necessarily validation, I do want this kind of uh uh understanding of of the bigger picture of me as a as a creative person in the world and what my goals are. Yeah, this is the last round. Elizabeth, three. Three. What is an instinct you have learned to trust? Um, if I feel safe, I uh yeah, if I feel safe.

 I love traveling so much and I I specifically drive a car that no one looks twice at because everyone drives a Prius in Los Angeles. And because I like going to lots of strange places, uh, that maybe as like a, you know, woman on her own in the world should be like looking around and make sure she’s okay.

 And I think I’ve always been when I I moved to New York for NYU um when I was 18 and living in this in that in this city, you’re always, you know, making sure that you’re that you’re physically safe even if you’re out at 3:00 in the morning or something that, you know, I’m like walking in the middle of a street because it’s the brightest part of the road.

 Uh and I, you know, when you’re carrying your bag, how you’re carrying your bag, I I’m pretty Uh, I think I have a good instinct for that because it so far uh, knock on wood has not uh, put me in a bad situation. Yeah. I remember having a conversation with my dad. He since passed, but we were I don’t know what brought it up, but it was about being a woman in the world and he had read something that that made him want to ask me like, “Do you really are you really assessing people all the time?” And I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, all the time.” You’re

always checking in on your like Spidey sense of like, is this person am I getting the heebie-jebies? Like, am I walking in a brightly lit space or is it dark or you know, where’s the door? I don’t know. Just you’re in a park. Like parking lots to me terrifying. Yeah. like indoor parking lots at night after going to see a movie.

 If you say bye to your friend and they go to a different floor of that parking structure. God, I’m horrified of parking lots. Parking crashes are the worst. They’re the worst. Especially when I’ve lost my car, which happens more times than I want to admit. And I’m like beeping trying to listen for the car and I’m like, I better find this thing before, you know, the Sandman pops out of the side of the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it.

 I get it. Okay. Few more cards. One, two, or three. Three. Do you think there’s more to reality than we can see or feel? More to reality than we can see or feel? My instinct is to say yes. I’ve recently um become uh not obsessed but very interested in trying to find language of uh uh non-tangible things that I believe are real and uh and I don’t like the word spirituality personally.

I feel like there’s a lot of there’s just a lot of connotations that I put on to it that have to do with uh sets of belief that I that I don’t feel aligned to. Can you give me one example of a belief that you let go or something that doesn’t sit with you within the construct of spirituality? when people celebrate like the full moon and they have an altar like I don’t actually uh believe in the power of these uh uh icons. Sure.

 And so I I associate those types of belief patterns in the idea of spirituality or it’s also organized religion which I think are you know great for people and neither feels like home to you the ceremony or organized religion. No. And yet I feel like there are things that the word that I have now adopted are atmporal. Atmporal is a good word.

 It’s a good word that um is the word that I can use where I feel like energy and instinct of something existing that is not real. Uh but it’s like a it’s a it’s a thing I feel that I don’t feel like I have language I like for. And so I’ve started using the word atmporal. Like there’s the temporal body and the atmporal body or the which is or the atmporal self which is the things we can’t quantify um like you can’t quantify love um you can’t quantify creativity you can’t quant but but it exists as a part of a person do you think when you die you

just die from dust to dust or does something else happen after that? No, I think dust to dust today. That’s what I think. If you were already predisposed to obsessing about dying, does it help or make it worse? The the It makes it worse. I think I think it makes it worse. Anytime I have this conversation about cuz I love actually talking about death quite a bit.

 Um when people are okay with death, often times they end they uh have hobbies that are um like very high risk, those people when they say things like, you know, I have to kind of grapple with the fact that I might die from an accident at any moment uh that they’re kind of okay with dying. I just I I like wish I had that feeling.

I do not want to do it. I’m scared of it. The dying. Yeah. No. Yeah. I don’t I’m not interested either. I don’t want it to I don’t want it to come out from a corner and surprise me and be like parking garage. Right. Yeah. But you also said that you love talking about it. So is there what is because I want to know when people say that like if they like I I know I can’t flip again, but if are you how are are you cool with the idea of death? I mean I’m not cool with it, but there’s it’s just it’s an inevitability, right? And I don’t want

to be um I want to I want to go out being okay. Like my not to get too my mom was so afraid of dying. Um she died of cancer a long time ago now, 16 years. And um as a child, watching her go through that was really hard. Um she was so sad and then she was angry, you know, all the stages of the thing. Yeah. Um and then she was really afraid.

 She was a really religious person. So in the end, I think she settled into the idea of some kind of afterlife. But um no, I don’t want to be afraid in the end because how that makes the people in your life feel it because I’m going to check out and I’m not going to know that I’m gone.

 But the people are left and they’re going to be left with a memory of how you exited the world, right? And I you know, you’re a people pleaser, too. I I want to do it right. I want I want I want to take away their burden as much as you can. Yeah. Yeah. So, I’m afraid of how I’m going to be. I don’t know if I’m brave enough to do that.

 I can talk a good game about it, but maybe I am going to be scared. Um, but I think all the time about dying. I am also glad that you’re obsessed with this because it’s informed a lot of my later life and informs choices that I make in relationship to the fact that time is so precious.

 And um it’s not it’s not a sad thing either. It’s like a I mean it is obviously but um it’s we have to do it. We have to do it. It’s like it is to not to bring it back to assessment but to bring it back to assessment if we don’t die and we continue to just use just use use and get old stay old forever. Like what does that world mean? I’m not into forever.

 That’s the point of that. No, it’s too much. It’s too long. or even like longer than you know like like I don’t like 120. I don’t know. That doesn’t sound right to me. That’s just it’s too much forever. Okay, that was good. All right, it’s the last three. Okay, one, two, or three? Two. What truth guides your life more than any other? uh being kind.

 Uh sometimes people act in really strange ways and it is usually reactive of like insecurities or fears or inability to communicate. And if you could just like be nice and be normal. Uh just like calm down. But that’s like my truth bar. That’s like my barometer of things. I mean, sometimes it’s so hard to to be able to have the bird’s eye view because it directly like there are things that are inescapable um responsibilities that we have that come up with loved ones or work or whatever.

 Just these responsibilities that sometimes feel like a chokeold. Um but but it it but those responsibilities aren’t excuses to be Truth. Truth. Yeah. Like everyone’s got something and the perspectives are going to be different. Uh what might not be a big deal to you could be a big deal to someone else. And it doesn’t matter um if if it’s a big deal to you or not it’s a big deal to them.

 And as long as there’s just like kindness, I think that’s uh that’s helpful. Elizabeth Olsen, words to live by. Don’t be an Yeah, don’t be an  It’s pretty simple. Be normal. Be normal. Yeah. Thank you for that. We end the show the same way every time. You get to go back to one moment in your past.

 It is a moment you would not change anything about. It’s just a moment you would like to linger in a little longer. What moment do you choose? I just left London yesterday and I’ve been living there for a couple months and I’ve lived there throughout work. I think the parks there are really like magical places and I was living um in Hamstead by the Heath and I went there all the time and uh there is a day where there is this uh father and daughter who had these very fancy pond boats that they together they’re electric would you know and she

was you know probably 16 or something and she was with her dad playing with these boats. It was clearly this thing that they do. And I found it to be so boring that watching them do this. And I was thinking I just had the most how moving it was cuz that was the moment in their life.

 No, it was it was one of those things where I was sitting and I was having a great time. Like I was with my husband and I were just like sitting on this bench. We were just like chatting away about people that were watching and it was such a beautiful day and we were it was a perfect like cold but son was out.

 I was watching this this father and daughter and I was thinking this is a perfect example of like in 30 years she’s going to think about how every Saturday or whatever she went to this pond and she is just going to uh glorify it and like the actual tedious boredom it it was it seemed but in her memory she’s going to she’s going to romanticize it and think about how lovely it was. Wait, this is so messy.

Your memory time machine is transporting yourself back to a place in London where you were judging someone else’s potential memory. I guess I don’t know what to say, Lizzie. I don’t know. It was one of those days where I was just endlessly fascinated by the things we choose to do um in idleness.

 And maybe that’s what it’s really about. Maybe it’s kind of amazing. people. Yeah. Be idol and their hobbies that they do in idleness. I enjoyed and you’re in this kind of timeless city um in a park that could kind of be at any you know any time in the world um the world’s history and it just it just kind of felt fun to just sit there and uh admire human behavior and choices.

 Oh my god, I can’t believe you just did that. I was like, I do not know where this is going to land. I do not know. Oh, she came. Ah, she landed it. We found We found the landing place of the memory time machine. That was beautiful. I think it was very interesting, too. Because I do that. Is that why I think it’s interesting? No, but you get there in the end.

 You get to you get there in the end. Lizzy Olson, um, it was been it’s just been such a pleasure. Thank you so so much for doing this. Thank you. Thanks for the show. Elizabeth Olsson, you can see her now in the film The Assessment, which is out at this very moment. Thank you so much for doing this, Elizabeth.

 Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun.