The New 6.5 Creedmoor + PEAK!

Rumors of the death of the 6.5 Creedmore may be premature. Say hello to the 21st century. It’s the 6.5 Creedmore plus peak. 2 to 300 ft per second faster than it used to be. Hello everyone. Welcome to Ron Spmer Outdoors podcast. My guest today is a hunting guide and my compatriot here at Ron Spmer Outdoors who does a lot of our camera work and helps out with our shooting and quite often doesn’t shoot as well as I do.

>> It happens way too much. Ron >> Landon, unfortunately, this this guy suffers from uh having me beat him in a couple of shootoffs, which doesn’t usually happen, but boy, when it does, we take advantage of it and put it out there on a video. So, poor Landon is taking the heat, but he really is a good shot and he’s a hunting guide, is experienced at even building rifles.

He’s a machinist. Uh, he knows what’s going on here, guys. So, I want to get his opinion on this new cartridge Federal came out with called the 6.5 Creedmore. It’s not new, but it’s the plus peak version. What does that mean? >> That they added maybe this peak alloy case to the 65 Creedmore. >> Yeah, that’s all they did, guys.

If you remember last year, they came out with this new cartridge called the 7 millimeter backcountry. And the big hoopla about it was that the case was not traditional brass. It was steel. And they called it peak alloy, a certain kind of steel that they’d been experimenting with, working for some military contracts, I believe.

And what it proved to be able to do was withstand much higher chamber pressures. So, they were able to put a faster burning, cooler burning powder in it. Raise the pressures up to 80,000 PSI and drive your bullets a lot faster without really increasing temperature, flame temperature, barrel burning, or any of that, I think.

Uh, and same size cartridge essentially as a 280 Remington, but two to maybe 300 ft per second faster just because you’ve got more pressure behind it. Traditionally, rifle cartridges peaked out with about 65,000 PSI of average chamber pressure. When that powder ignites and it reaches maximum pressure right there in the chamber, if you don’t want to blow your barrel up, you better keep that at a reasonable level.

And that has been 65,000 PSI. 270 Winchester is that 22250 Remington has that. Virtually all of the Weatherbe Magnum cartridges, they peak out. Anybody who wants magnum performance with whatever size cartridge you have, get your pressures up to 65,000, but that was pretty much it for Sammy spec cartridges.

Well, this is where the big difference comes in. You take that steel peak and you make it into the shape of a Creedmore. It still fits in your Creedmoor rifle, but it withstands more pressure. And apparently the rifles are safe. And bingo. I think this was a brilliant move by Federal because with their seven back country, you had to buy a new rifle.

It’s still surprisingly popular because of its performance, but to buy a new rifle, that slows a lot of people down. But how many people already have a 6.5 Creedmore and all you have to do to get this increased performance is use the new steel case ammunition that’s federal as selling. They’re going to sell a heap of these darn things because how many rifles are out there chambered with a 65 Creedmore? >> Oh, so many. So many.

Everyone’s got a 65 Creedmore. >> Yeah, for a while there it surpassed the 308 Winchester in sales. It maybe still does, but that’s saying something because the 308 Winchester was one of the most popular center fires out there for both targets and hunting. Creedor sort of took over. Um, now that you’ve got an additional velocity out of the same case, well, a different case, but the same cartridge shootable in your rifle, who’s who’s going to resist that, at least for hunting.

What’s it going to do for velocity? >> I’ve I’ve heard upwards of 3 to 500 ft per second. >> 500? That seems a little heavy. >> I’ve seen a chronograph video >> really >> of it. >> What weight bullet were they getting? >> The 130s. >> Well, let’s see what Federal has to say about this. They put a big announcement out and then of course all the bloggers and people like me said something about it. But I want to see what Here we go.

Federal’s website says introducing the 6.5 Creedmoor plus peak. Peak refers to the peak alloy steel case. And it says it’s compatible with the 6.5 Creedmoor rifle. All the Creedmoor rifles. And they can do this because the Creedmore cartridge came out in 2008. So all the rifles are fully modern.

And that’s the steel quality that will withstand these pressures. >> I’m sure they did all sorts of testing. They’re not going to crank something out that’s going to blow somebody’s hand off and getting that get sued. They don’t like that. Anyway, they continue and they say this is the plus peak paradigm shift. This isn’t just a new cartridge.

It’s a whole new way to build ammunition that is faster, more capable, and easier to shoot than anything that’s come before. Introducing the 6.5 Creedmoor Plus Peak. It’s become one of the most popular modern cartridges, the 6.5 Creedmoor for hunting and long range target shooting. But Federal just unlocked its true potential with this new 6.

5 Creedmore plus peak brass or not brass steel. We’re going have to change our nomenclature from >> it’s going to start being called a case. >> Yeah, you got enough brass now. We’ll say have you got enough steel. At any rate, the high performance cartridge uses the patented peak alloy case technology that Federal pioneered in its 7mm back country to beat the 6.

5 PRC. And that’s a much fatter cartridge. >> That is Look at that. So, the littleer one will go faster now than the big one. The uh peak case enables this 6.5 to boost velocities 300 feet per second over standard 6.5 Creedmoor and 100 feet per second over the 65 PRC with heavier for caliber bullets.

Shooters get more energy, less drop, longer effective range, without harsh recoil or the need to purchase a new firearm. Ho ho. And that’s the big one, guys. Think how many 6.5 are out there. >> Oh, there’s got to be millions. >> Yeah. And if guys are getting a little bit tired of it and thinking they need more velocity, maybe they should buy a 65 PRC or the 65 RPM or something bigger. Now they don’t have to.

>> Hold your horses. I’d get it. I’d get that uh new Peak Plus. >> Now, this is an interesting development because when the 7mm backcountry came out and people were saying, “Well, can we do this with a 306 or 270 or 308?” I said, “Guys, I don’t know. I don’t think so. It might be that you need the reason they made this in a new shape is so that you wouldn’t stick it in your 280 Remington chamber and blow that rifle up.

It may only work in certain rifles and they probably have to test it. And to be safe, they don’t want to make a cartridge that will fit existing rifles, but now they’ve done it. So, so what does that tell you? >> So, it tells me that our new modern rifles can withstand the pressures as long as your case is capable of it. Yeah, I think that’s absolutely right.

The question is, how modern does the rifle have to be? >> I don’t know. >> I think what they did with the Creedmoor is they said, “Wait a minute. Every Creedor that’s ever been built had to be 2008 or more recent because that’s when it came out.” So, you’ve got fully modern steels. You’ve got rifles and actions and such that have been tested again and again.

And I’m sure Federal did exhaustive testing on this to find out that they could do this safely. They’re not going to turn out a cartridge with 80,000 PSI pressure when there’s somebody who might have a store-bought rifle, commercially available rifle that would blow up with that pressure. >> So, it must be safe or they wouldn’t be doing it.

And then the Creedmore being that modern, what a brilliant way to do it. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. So you’re you’re pushing the same bullets as a PRC pushes or the 65 RPM or the 6555 suite or the 264 Win Mag, any of these. The caliber is the same. >> It’s just the powder is a different volume for each of them. And that’s the only way we got more velocity in the old days.

You had to put more powder behind that bullet or put a smaller bullet on the standard powder supply, but then you suffer ballistically. So, this kind of solves multiple problems and it increases the viability of that little cartridge because there’s a lot of hunters, shooters who denigrate the 65 Creedmore as the >> the need more >> the need more >> or the man bun.

>> Well, if you add 300 feet per second to the same bullets, I think your man bun just flew off your head. You know, Ron, you talk about this little cartridge doing such high velocities with the with these grain 130s, 150s bullets. Um, >> kind of brings into my mind the 270. >> Oh, yes. >> But but look how big that case and cartridge is compared to that little 65.

> Yeah, good point. So, if they’re if I remember right, Federal is offering a 130 grain bullet on this thing. >> The 130 grain Federal Terminal Ascent. Okay, that’s a great hunting bullet. So, that’s obviously what they’re aiming at, pardon the pun. And they drive at 3,100 ft per second.

That’s pretty much what the 270 does out of a 24in barrel with 130 grain bullet. So, you’ve got the same bullet weight, same energy, blah blah blah. Ha. But you’ve got a 26. >> It’s in a short action. Plus, your bullet is narrower than the 27. It’s 26. That means if it’s got the same basic form, long sharp point and all, you’re going to have a higher BC.

That’s going to be aerodynamically efficient. It’s going to retain more energy downrange, shoot flatter, drift less in the wind. It actually is better than the 270 with 130 grain bullet. Woo! >> That’s going to hurt to swallow. >> A lot of guys aren’t going to want to swallow that one. But hey, there it is. But the the other good comparison is that PRC because many of us really liking that Creedor and what it can do with those long sleek bullets and the faster twist rates and all wanted a little more velocity out of it and they

come out with that PRC a few years after the >> Creedor was released >> and you got that but you had a fatter case which some of us think is fine others go I really don’t like those fat cases but it did go 200 feet per second faster and we thought that was great for elk. But you’re telling me now this is going to go another 100 ft per second faster >> than that PRC.

>> Well, that’s what Federal is claiming. So, >> well, I hope it is true. >> Well, sure. If it is, what does that tell you about the life uh expectancy of the 65 PRC? >> You might be on life support, huh? >> I don’t think the 270 is going to fall out of favor any soon because there’s just too many rifles out there.

Sentimental value and they still work. Come on. I mean, we’re just nitpicking here between these two. But if you’ve got that 6.5 Creedmoor and you’ve been shooting it for years and you wanted a little more horsepower, now you’ve got it. Same volume of powder. >> Yeah. >> So, how do they get more speed out of the same cartridge? I mean, how can they push those pressures up? You can only put so much powder in there.

>> Just a faster burning powder, I would assume. >> That’s what I assume, too. Guys, the problem with faster burning powders in traditional cartridges is you can’t use a really fast burning powder and a heavy bullet because your pressure spikes too quickly and puts it all in one tiny little spot and that can blow something up.

So, when you have a heavier bullet, you have to have a slower burning powder that gets it started more slowly before your pressure peaks. It’s kind of like pushing a big heavy weight. It takes a lot of energy to get it started, but once it’s rolling, doesn’t take all that much more to keep it going. So, in order to avoid that intense pressure when it first breaks free, they can uh use a lighter bullet or a slower burning powder to start pushing it, pushing it, pushing it, pushing it, and then it reaches its full velocity.

But if your case is steel and it can withstand that sudden jolt of high energy and pressure, >> there you go. just as same quantity of powder but faster burning with a heavy bullet. It seems to work. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Now, what are they offering for bullets? We mentioned the 130 and that’s one that they’re currently or as soon as they get these out, that’s what’s going to be sold.

>> Yep. And uh the other one I heard was the 155 grain fusion tip. >> Let me see what Okay, they’ve got your terminal ascent here. That’s your 130. That’s a nickel coated bullet. It looks like fusion tipped bullet 155 grain. >> Yeah. >> So again, 270 when you go on an alunt, you generally want 150 grain bullet in your 270.

>> Yeah. >> You’re going to have pretty close to the same thing. And again, narrower, so you’re going to have higher BC that they claim you can drive to 2,900 ft per second out of a 24in barrel. That is about what a 24in barrel 270 Winchester will do with a 150. So there you go. But what if you don’t like a fusion tipped bullet? Coming soon, you’re going to be able to get a gold medal Sierra tipped Match King.

It doesn’t give a weight for it. A Barnes LRX. I like that one. Um I don’t know what that one might weigh, but I’ll bet you it’s getting a bit close to 140s or a Burger Elite Hunter. That’s a real high BC bullet. That’s going to fly a long way. All right. So, what about handloading? >> What about handloading, Ron? >> Are you going to be able to handload that thing? >> I mean, I would assume so.

They they I know a few people have been handloading that seven back country. >> Yeah. One of my patrons, Dell, really handloads that thing a lot. And I mean, it is his main hobby and he spends a lot of time experimenting with it. and he says he can get this 7 millimeter backcountry peak alloy case reloaded five to as many as seven times.

I think Federal was claiming that you could reload it three times, but he said no, >> pretty much five and I pushed a few to seven, but then you start getting some breakage when you go back. He said the issue with it is because that steel is so hard. It’s not like a brass case where it expands and contracts and you flare it out and you seat your bullets and you resize it and all these things.

You really don’t resize it, but you have to flare the mouth out in order to put the bullet in. And then I imagine there’s some kind of a little bit of a squeeze or crimping to hold it in. >> But whatever is required, he says your normal dies will do it, but you have to add in that mouth flaring dye. >> Okay.

So open it up to get your bullet in. But beyond that, I think you can kind of get by with your standards. So if you’re already loading for a Creedmore, perhaps you just need to buy that expansion die for the mouth of the case and you can go and hand load it. >> Yeah. >> And Federal said here that they are going to immediately sell reloadable cases.

So you don’t have to buy fully loaded ammo, shoot it, and then start loading it. >> Maybe your gun likes a different kind of bullet. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can play around like any hand loader does. And I think that’s a smart move, too, because so many of these 65 Creedmore shooters are >> target shooters. >> Target shooters and they hand analopee.

>> You know, Ron, I’m gonna have to I’m going to have to say it and it’s going to hurt me a little bit. >> Uh >> oh. >> You know, I’ve loved to hate the 65 Creedmore. >> Yeah, >> it doesn’t look so bad now. >> Well, I you know, I’m hearing a lot of that. I did a little post on Facebook the other day and I did one on Patreon for our patrons to ask them what they thought of all this stuff and got a lot of replies down.

I know you collected some of them. >> I have some of your get to some of that. >> Right before that, can I tell you one thing that’s on my mind? >> Sure. >> Why do a lot of people love this 65 Creedmoor? >> Why do they love it? >> Cheap ammunition. >> Yeah, I think so. Cheap ammunition >> doesn’t burn your barrel. >> Yeah, barrel life is pretty long.

Uh minimum recoil. >> Yeah. um not all that expensive, >> right? >> And those high BC bullets, that twist rate, that’s where they really made it with that thing is that they insisted on a fast twist rate so they could have the longer, more efficient bullets. >> Yeah. And the biggest complaint I have with it and I’ve heard is it’s slow for hunting for hunting purposes.

>> It really is. >> So with that new Peak, we’re getting our speeds up, but maybe I don’t want to shoot that peak alloy all the time. Sounds like I can shoot both out of the same rifle. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, good idea. >> You can you can practice and shoot targets and whatever you want with your brass case. >> Brilliant.

>> Come hunting season, switch over peak. >> There you go. So, you get to practice all you want with traditional brass cased ammunition. >> Yeah. >> And have all the benefits of that. And then when it’s time to get another 300 ft per second on your bullet, you go with the peak steel case and go hunting. Ah, I love it. Two rifles in one.

And if you already own the 65 Creedmore, you don’t have to buy any new ones. >> Oh, no. >> These are going to sell like hot cakes. >> That’s absolutely right. >> Sweet. Well, what are what are people saying about some of this stuff? >> All right, we got your We’ll We’ll start with your Patreon. Okay. >> And we’ll start with Gregory.

>> In the last decade, we’ve seen amazing improvements in ballistics with new bullet technology and now a quantum leap with cartridge case technology. This is a win-win as you can choose higher velocity in standard barrels or can have accepted velocities in short suppressed. A paradigm shift in the industry.

>> Oh, short suppressed. Yeah. Yeah. So, you can shoot it in your standard 24in barrel, 22in barrel, and compare it to what you’ve been getting out of your 270s and 308s and the like. Or you can take advantage of its increased velocity to put it in a shorter barrel. You’re going to get reduced velocity then, but you get the advantage of a shorter barrel with a suppressor on it if you’d like, which most of us are doing these days with shorter barrels.

So, you’ve got a a similarly compact rifle. Um, and you still keep your velocities up, just not as much. So, you can go with max velocity in a 24-in barrel or maximum convenience with a shorter barrel in a muzzle >> suppressor. Yeah, >> cool. >> Good point, Gregory. Who else has written in? Oh, you got Steve here.

He’s another patron. >> Yeah. >> Because the 65 Creedmore didn’t hit the market until 2008, every commercial rifle chambered for it is fully modern and more than adequately strong to handle the 80,000 PSI. >> Right. >> How far back can we go? Can Federal go and still be assured receivers are adequately strong? 7mm08 plus peak 308 Winchester plus peak and so on so forth.

He’s got a few here. Maybe why some of our favorite old cartridges will never be available in plus peak loads. Or will they? >> Ah yeah, great question. And we touched on that earlier. The 6.5 Creedmore was the perfect choice because all rifles chambered for it are modern. But what where’s the line drawn for modern? I’m going to say you can probably go back into h don’t hold me to this anybody, but I’ll bet you model 70s from the 1930s, probably even some before that, like the model 54 Winchester.

>> Um because we were already pushing 65,000 PSI out of that 270 in 1935, actually 1925. So that was the model 54. So, I think the steels back in those days were just as strong >> and resisting pressures like that. But hey, don’t ask me. I’m not the metal urgy engineer kind of a guy here. And it’s going to be determined by federal putting these things out.

I’m sure they’re going to have to test it. 308 that didn’t come out till 1952. I would guess by then your steels are plenty good enough. >> Probably pretty safe. >> Yeah. And your modern rifles and all the rest. I think we really haven’t done all that much experimenting with rifles taking pressures.

We’ve been pretty conservative about it the whole time. I think the concern goes back to the early center fire rifles with smokeless powder and we’re going way back to 1892 for the 655 Swede, the 757 Mouser, uh a little bit later the 8 mm German mousers and all those. Uh, but they came up with Cupro nickel steel really hard and all that stuff pretty early on around that time to accommodate that.

So, I don’t know how far back you’re going to be able to go, but I would say definitely the 308 Winchester and its entire family could take these pressures. >> Well, right before this podcast, Ron, you were telling me was it Pio Aley? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, Peacley’s This is interesting stuff, folks. Peckley was a gunsmith who started the Aly improved cartridges.

He did all kinds of innovative research and one of the questions he had was so many people said, “Well, the the model 94 Winchester lemur action rifle is a weak action. That’s why the 3030 and all the cartridges chambered for it are pretty slow. You can’t get your pressures up in those. It’s weak action.” And he said, “Is that really true?” So, he started experimenting.

He said he found an old junker 94 action and barrel and uh sacrificed it in the interest of science and he started putting heavier and heavier pressure loads into it, overloading it and whatnot. He would screw the barrel out a little way so he had excessive chamber area and head space and all. The primers would back out, the cases would split, the cases would break in half and the action kept going.

And he finally got to I think he said he double charged a powder load. So he who knows how much pressure he had. The barrel blew up and the action was still fine. The bolt didn’t get broken. It didn’t get shoved back in the action. Anything broke. So they’re much stronger than most people think. >> That’s just a lever action. So imagine with a good bolt action.

>> Yeah. >> I think what people would be concerned about is the locking lugs on a bolt action shearing off from the back thrust. But what Aley was discovering with his little research was that a straightwalled cartridge like you see here on this 2A this 7mm back country and the PRC all these modern cartridges the walls are so straight that when they fire they’re pretty much sticking to the sidewalls and the pressure is not driving that cartridge back against the bolt face.

One thing I learned about pressure is that it’s equal in all directions. Mhm. >> So, if you’ve got that cartridge in the rifle and it fires, the pressure going to the side and to the front and to the back, it’s all pretty much the same, but you’ve have to take into consideration the area, the surface area. You’ve got the same pressure, but it’s on a very small base of the case as opposed to the length of the case.

So, most of that pressure is absorbed by the barrel in the chamber area and slightly forward. So, all of that stuff will be determined by the engineers and I think they’re going to decide. Um, my guess would be that if this 65 Creedmore Peak goes like I think it will and becomes really popular, everybody’s going to demand, hey, I’ve got a 308 rifle.

I want 300 ft per second more velocity out of it. Make me one. There’s going to be a huge demand for it. >> I think so. >> And where would it stop? Only when you get to a cartridge that was chambered once upon a time in a weak proven weak action. >> Yeah. Like the Mouser 93 chambered for the 757 Mouser.

They’re not going to make that 757 Mouser in a steel case. It’s just too risky. And no, nor is it popular enough, I think, to justify it. >> Probably not. >> But the 308 Winchester, I would expect that one coming down the pike. >> I would think so. >> So, we’ll see what happens. >> I think we have one more Patreon, Ron. >> Okay.

Robert, I totally am now rethinking about getting rid of my 65 Creedomor. The 24inch 65 Creedomor I have now is going to become my new western deer and OAD rifle. >> All right. >> No longer need a 65 PRC or a 270. >> I expect to see the 308 coming out on March 8th, 2027. >> There you go. Robert agrees with me, guys.

So, um, regardless what you think of all this stuff, I’d keep my eyes open and be prepared for a really what that I think what Federal said, a paradigm shift in how we think about cartridges. We’re just going to be able to pretty much step up our velocities with the same cartridges just by using that steel case. Um, Federal has, I think, what would they say, cut themselves a fat hog.

>> Something like that. >> Yeah. What what are people saying in response to my um my little Facebook post on this thing? >> There’s some good ones here. Hi there. >> Yes, sir. >> Let’s hear them. >> Ahmad, he’s he has a pretty good question. You know, how’s it going to affect barrel life? >> Oh, that is a good question.

I don’t know the absolute answer, but I think this makes sense to me. It’s not going to change it. >> Yes, you have more pressure, but they’re using a cooler burning, faster burning powder. Mhm. >> And uh I don’t think the pressure is that hard on it as the flame temperature, >> right? >> That’s what destroys barrels.

When that bullet leaves, all the fire flame in that rapidly burning powder is concentrated, literally blown right into the throat of the rifle where the rifling begins. And when you look at a barrel that’s been shot out, it’s not from the friction of the bullet fast going down the barrel. It’s that heat right there.

And you’ll see it with a scope right as cracking on the lands and the grooves and it breaks up your tears your bullet and causes inaccuracy. So I don’t think it’s going to reduce barrel life that much. >> I think a a common misconception we’ll call it is that speed affects your barrel life. And I think it’s exactly what you said.

Speed comes from more powder which is the only way we could gain more speed. >> Mhm. back back just in before the seven back country even. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> So, I think a lot of people associate speed with barrel life and I don’t I don’t think that’s going to be the case. >> No, it’s powder volume, powder temperature, and bore diameter.

So, the reason the 220 Swift is known as a barrel burner is because that’s a real large volume of powder for a very tiny bore. If you open that 22 caliber bore to 24, you get increased barrel life with the same amount of powder behind it. Yeah. >> And if you open it to 25 to 26, you just keep going like that.

It becomes more efficient and less burning because you’re not putting all of that flame temperature in such a tiny space. >> Yeah, >> that makes sense. I’m looking here on uh where their website uh post to see if they say anything about that burning barrel thing. You keep going while I look for that. >> All right.

Rob says, “We need a peak alloy factory Hornady 7PRC to make up for its lost velocity Hornady once had. That’s a good one. Now, hey, for those of you who aren’t up on this 7 mm PRC, this is a fairly new cartridge that Hornady developed, uh, along the lines of what they were trying to do with the six Creedomor, but with a little more powerful 7mm, heavier bullet and all the rest of it.

>> They didn’t necessarily want to outshoot the seven mag for velocity, but they wanted efficiency and they wanted to be able to stabilize long, high BC bullets and all the rest of it. and they came out with it saying, “Whoopd. This thing drives a what? 175 grain bullet about 3,000 ft per second.

” And at first it seemed like that’s what it did did. When I tested it, >> uh I was getting 2950 to 2990. Sometimes I would maybe hit 3,000, but like close enough. But then all of a sudden they started shooting 2700 ft per second, 2,800 ft per second. People started complaining, “What’s going on?” And Hornady said, “Well, we can’t get the kind of powder we initially developed this thing with.

uh it’s not available anymore and the best we can come up with is this. But they never really changed the information on the back or the advertising. And so people got pretty upset with that and that’s what this choke is about. They they could get their velocities back up if they went with a peak case. Maybe they’ll do that. Who knows? >> Hopefully. Coming soon.

>> Say, I found something on Federal’s uh news release here on Barrel Life. Uh it says how do barrel life and firearm wear compare to that of a standard 65 Creedomor? Their answer is internal testing has shown that the wear caused by a 65 Creedmoor plus peak cartridge is comparable to that of wear caused by standard brass case 65 Creedomor but refer to your firearm manufacturer for more specific information.

So, I think that’s kind of pushing it off on the the rifle barrel maker because some barrel steels can last a little bit longer than others. Chrome lined is supposed to last longer. I think stainless steel maybe lasts a little bit longer than chromaly steel. Don’t quote me on that though. But there subtle differences there.

But the the basic point I think Federal’s making is that with any given barrel and steel really the peak loads aren’t any different for barrel wear than Sander. Cool. All right, Art. I promise that no animal will be able to tell the difference with an extra couple hundred feet per second. >> Yeah, that’s classic argument with any new cartridge comes out with a higher velocity.

It’s like, what was wrong with the old one? And that’s true. But that’s not the point. The point is one wants to have better ballistic performance so you can shoot more accurately, reach a little bit farther. Yes, the animal’s going to die if it gets hit by that bullet. We always say it’ll get dead if you hit it in the brain with a 22 long rifle, but I’m not sure you want to elut with that one.

You could have something a little bigger, faster, and harder. >> Dick says, “So, barrel burners are making a comeback.” >> We’ve already answered that. So many people assume that because you’ve got this 80,000 PSI and a little faster velocity, you’re going to burn the barrel out. But once again, federal claims not.

And based on what I know about barrel burning, I just don’t think it’s going to happen. >> No, >> no. I’m going to have to agree with Jason here. >> Oh, yeah. >> I guess the 65 Needmore got more. >> Very clever. Who was that? >> Jason. >> Jason, well done. Is now the Gotmore. >> All right. Denver says, “I’m assuming this can be implemented in all the Creedmore family calibers.

Oh. Oh, good point. Yeah. Well, it could except for one one that I can think of. So, what are we talking about? You’ve got a 22 Creedmore, a 25 Creedmore. Uh 65 Creedmore. Is that it? >> 22 256 65. >> 26 and 65. Well, 26 and 65 are the same thing. So, there’s all your Creed Mores. 25 >> 22 >> 25. There’s no 24. Yeah. 6 millm.

That’s right. You’re right. Right. Okay. 24, 25, 22, 26. Bingo. All of those could be put into peak cases. The one that cannot and never will be, I predict, is the 44 1110 Remington Creedmore from 1880. How’s that for an eye openener? >> The Creedmore was around back then. >> There was a Creedmore cartridge in 1880.

The Creedmore name is a what started it was the Creed farm. There was a farm on Long Island where they had long range target competitions. They were shooting to a thousand yards in 1880s. >> So they the the shooters said, “Are you going to the Creed farm?” And there was a a moore there. M O R.

It’s not M O R E. It’s not Creed Moore. It’s mo. And a moore is like a heath, a heather kind of a bog or something like that. Open flat planes where they could shoot a long ways. So they called it the Creed Moore where they had their shooting competitions and that’s where the name comes from. >> All right. I didn’t know that.

>> Yeah. But they’re not going to put that uh peak case on a 44 110 Creedmore blow rifle. >> Probably not. All right. Andrew says, “Is it safe in lever actions and brake actions?” >> Yeah, good question. That gets back to what I was saying earlier from Po Aley and the lever action. I think the actions could handle it.

uh brake action. So long as your barrel is thick enough and has the can withstand those pressures, I don’t think you’re going to have any issues with the back thrust on the bolt or the the back of the receiver, whatever’s locking up. It would be the fence on a brake action. >> And the lever action, I think, let’s defer to Pio Aley on that one.

He pretty much proved they can take it. Well, look at some of the modern lever actions like the BLR Browning. That thing’s chambered for a seven rim mag, I think, even 300M. >> Yeah. Yeah. So you and a 270 and your pressure 65,000 with that. >> Yeah, I think those rifles could take it. >> Cool. >> Cool.

Jeff says, “I’d bet my last dollar that when the new smokeless powder came out in 1886, there were skeptics, noosayers, and haters. Probably said they’d stick with the powder grandpa used in the Revolutionary War.” >> Absolutely. Yeah. That’s standard stuff. Any anytime some new development comes along, somebody’s going to say, “What’s wrong with what grandpa used? It worked just fine.” Well, it did.

And you can still use it. >> You know what’s funny, Ron? What? >> No one says that about Chevrolet trucks or >> Wait a minute. >> Ford cars. >> I do. I do because I can’t understand all these new computerized controls and stuff. I reach over for a knob and there is no knob. And then I have to look at the screen and start to punch stuff in.

And then I drive into a tree or something. Uh-uh. I complain about them. >> We need to start a movement. >> I propose it right now. >> What is it? >> That every time a new cartridge comes out, we get as excited as everyone does when a new iPhone comes out. >> See, I don’t even like new iPhones cuz I got to learn new things about how to run those.

I just assume keep grandpa’s old iPhone. >> All right. Nester says, “That’s amazing performance for such a small, understated cartridge. The fact that these loads will perform head-to-head with the 270 Winchester will increase the 65 Creedor’s popularity. Tip it with a monometal or bonded 130 grain bullet, and you’ll have a do it all cartridge for North America.

Being something of an old guy, I’ll keep hunting with my 270, 65x 55, and 7×57. >> Can’t argue with that. And that’s the sweet thing about all of this. Because they develop something new doesn’t mean we have to adopt it. You don’t have to sell your old rifles and get new stuff. But if you like the idea, if you want it, it’s there.

That’s the great thing about being an American. We’ve got choices. >> Yeah. And lots of them. >> Yeah. And the freedom to make them. >> All right. Christopher has news flash for those saying wait until they do this for the 3006 270 308 etc. They won’t. Too many old rifles chambered in these. They could do it for the PRC’s. It’ll turn them into beasts.

>> Yeah, and we discussed all that earlier. I think we really will see a 308 because those rifles are modern enough, strong enough. But Federal will be testing them. I’m sure they probably already are. They’re probably deep in development of the next peak alloy case cartridge. And I’ll bet it’s going to be the 308 >> cuz that’s just so popular.

>> With how many comments I’ve seen on the 308, I would assume that Federal is probably seeing the same thing and having to think a little bit about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. But the nice thing about Federal doing this is that they don’t have a gun division. They’re not trying to sell you a new rifle.

So when they look at a cartridge, they say, “Look, if we’re going to go through the trouble of building this new peak alloy cartridge, we need to sell a bunch of them. What’s going to sell the best?” Well, what’s the most popular cartridge out there? 65 Creedmore, 308 Winchester. Um, and then after that, who knows? You know, probably the 270 will come along.

>> I hope so. >> Here’s a good question. Here’s a good question. >> What about the 22 rimfire? Would they make that in a peak steel? I mean, personally, I usually go the opposite of faster with my 22s. I like it to be that sound sonic with the suppressor. So, things to hammer. >> Well, you’re an oddball.

Most Americans want more speed. Will they do it with the 22? You don’t have to buy a 22 win mag if you can get another 300 ft per second out of the old 40 grain bullet on your 22 long rifle. Put it in that peak steel case. You think they’ll do it? You know, just for testing sakes, I hope so. >> No, I bet you they won’t. >> I bet you they won’t.

>> You know why? >> Cuz it’s 22 long rifle and it’ll drive the price of the case up. >> Yeah, it’ll drive it up. But I don’t think they can get it to work. Remember, you’ve got to crush the edge of that rim. >> Oh, yeah. >> The primer is in the rim and that’s why you can’t put high pressures in a rim fire because in order to keep the brass soft enough to get crushed to make the primer get squeezed to set it off, it’s got to be pretty thin and pretty malleable.

So, you add more pressure to it and that blows it out at that point. Yeah. >> You’re not going to crush the steel with your primer with your uh firing pin. You’re going to break the firing pin. >> Yeah. >> So, that’s my prediction on the rimfires. >> That’s a good thought. I never even would have thought about that. >> That’s why I’m an old man.

I think about things. >> All right. Because we know how much Ron loves the 308. >> Oh, boy. Here we go. >> Marty says, “Great move by Federal and their marketing has been excellent. I hope they can do I hope they can keep up with production. Do you think they can do this with older cartridges like the 243 and 308? Is the fact there are a lot of older rifles out there in these cartridges going to be a significant enough concern to prevent it? If they did turn the 308 into Peak Plus, even Uncle Ron might would become a fan of

the 308. >> He might, but no, he’s going to stick with the 708. Hey. Hey, but that brings something up for hand loading. You know, we love to >> neck down cartridges. You’re not going to be necking these things down. >> No. >> If you get a 6.5, it’s always going to be a 6.5. You’re not going to neck it down to 6 millm Creedmore.

>> Federal could, but they’d have to build it from scratch and make it that standard. So, your steel does not expand and it’s just not like brass. So, >> there’s a big difference right there. Any more? >> That’s all I have, Ron. Well, I think that’s probably enough because we’re beating this topic to death.

But it is exciting, guys. I really think this is a paradigm shift as Federal said because this is the first time we come up with any kind of a mechanism that lets us increase the velocity without a bigger case, more powder and all the rest of it. Um, and it goes, like I said, 100 years.

That’s the last time we had a big boost in our pressures. 270 Winchester 1925 I’m pretty sure was the first one that allowed 65,000 PSI chamber pressure and that set the standard for the next hundred years until Peak came along. So I think we can thank Federal for this development. >> Yeah, I’m excited about it. >> Yeah. Thanks guys.

Send us some ammunition. We’ll try it out. See if we can blow up a 65 Creedmar. You’d love that, wouldn’t you? >> Oh, it’s my favorite thing to do. >> All right, everybody. Write in and let us know what you think of this. Is it a bunch of hoie? Do you think it’s a good uh development? Is it going to be worth it? Do we need it? I honestly don’t think we need it, but uh it’s kind of fun to have it.

So, we’re going to see what the future brings. But I kind of think this is going to set the stage for the rest of cartridge and rifle development in the next 20, 30, 50, 100 years. >> By then, we’ll be shooting lasers. >> They said that back in the 50s. All right, guys. Hey, thanks for uh listening in. We’ll see you all next time. Hunt on us and shoot straight.